Under the Covers : Batman and Sex
(The title is suppose ot be somewhat of a parody on Watchmen's UNDER THE HOOD, lol, ya I'm bad at telling jokes - anyways, these are just a couple of my insights on - well - what I believe four of my favorite Batman characters sexual orientations and sexual understandings are. I'll be seperating this into four seperate pots all under the same topic because I just feel it neater and easier to read.)
Batman and Sex…
Well when it comes to sexual orientation I don’t think the Dark Knight is in the least bit difficult to find out.
He got the check box right on the STRAIGHT and I don’t think he plans on changing it any time soon.
But it’s expected – first off he likes women, in the animated series and in DCU he’s got a thing for plenty of women. Bruce is after all a billionaire play boy whose got girls coming out of the mansions windows and even as Batman, the cold distant vigilante, he got tons of hot girls coming after him. Catwoman to be one of the most prominent women after his knickers. Not to mention when it comes to the DCU or other type of medium they get a little touché when it comes to the subject of sexual orientation, I think there was only a few comics where I even evidently saw the presence of homosexuality (sans Joker). When you think superhero, you think a big macho body builder guy who doesn’t trot around in ladies underwear, and thus why I feel most if not all superheroes usually fit into the mold of STRAIGHT guy. And if they ever do plan to make an incredibly flamboyant character, a character that would be often used and not just background noise and think a lot of CRAZY people out there would go ballistic – so I guess DC just wants ot air on the side of caution.
But in any case, if that’s all there is to Batman/Bruce – then why talk about it?
I think the character over the years has not only grown in depth and look but more unbeknownst to the audience, has changed in sexual feeling.
Let’s take the Batman from the 60’s – notable the iconic Adam West version which pretty much mirrored some of the feel of what people thought Comic books were about and such. Not to mention mirrored some of their own beliefs in outlandish and exaggerated forms. Take a ride with me down some humorous work written by Alex Bledsoe discussing what it would’ve been like if Alfred from the Batman TV Show – were to give teenager Bruce Wayne “The Talk”:
Alfred was the ever proper, ever helpful butler who, along with housekeeper Aunt Harriet, kept “Stately Wayne Manor” in tip-top shape. Privy to the secrets of Bruce Wayne (crime-fighting and otherwise, no doubt), he often stepped in to help, a domino mask hiding his identity. But at one time must’ve dealt with something far less proper than battling the baddies bedeviling Bruce.
Imagine Bruce Wayne, in short pants and private school blazer, standing before Alfred in the mansion’s library. This Wayne Manor is brightly spotless, and filled with the works of art and respectable encyclopedia of the time would’ve called “great”. It was created by set designers not concerned with psychological reality: Why, after all, would Bruce use a bust of Shakespeare to hide the red button? Surely, given his penchant for creatures of the night, Poe would’ve been a better choice. But thanks to the ‘60s insistence on educational basics like great literature, every schoolboy of the time knew Shakespeare on sight, and this bust told them that Bruce had also had to read Julius Caesar in junior high school and wonder what the hell “ides” were.
Already a precocious (and chivalrous) lad, Bruce certainly would ensure that Aunt Harriet was either off to the market or with the other ladies getting her hair done. This is not a conversation for delicate female sensibilities.
“Alfred”, he would say in his grim, vaguely breathless way, “there seems to be an untoward event happening that I can neither explain nor prevent.”
“I see, Master Bruce,” Alfred would no doubt respond, possibly fingering the furniture-polishing chamois cloth in his white gloved hands. “And where is this event occurring?”
With hands clasped behind his back, Bruce might say, “In my trousers, Alfred.”
“In your trousers, Master Bruce?”
“Yes, Alfred. It appears that a certain appendage has altered its appearance over an incredibly short period of time, although the appendage itself is no longer incredibly short.”
Alfred would place his housekeeping items aside, and perhaps remove his glasses for a quick polish as he formulates his reply. He might even pour himself a discreet glass of port to help muster the resolve to address this issue, knowing that young Master Bruce has nowhere else to turn. At last he might say, “That does seem significant, Master Bruce.”
“Can you explain this perplexing protuberance, Alfred?”
“Indeed, sire. It is the plain presence of proper puberty.”
“As, yes, puberty. We studied this in science class. It means I have no experienced the first thrusts of manhood, does it not?”
“I believe so, Master Bruce. You should also have noticed an outgrowth of hair in new places, and I have detected a variation in your normal speaking tone.”
“So all these examples are the expected exemplars of this extraordinary event?”
“Indeed, Master Bruce.”
“Very well. I shall remove myself to my room to privately examine this perfidious protuberance more properly.”
“I expect so, Master Bruce.” Shortly, Alfred would no doubt see the unmistakable onomatopoeia handing in the air outside Master Bruce’s bedroom, although perhaps BAM! and OOF! Would be replaced by somewhat…squishier terms.
And so this version of Bruce Wayne would go on to done gray tights and a blue satin cowl with eyebrows drawn on it much in the style of an over plucked dowager’s. He would also begin a long-term platonic relationship with a young man he insisted on calling “Dick” even though the boy’s given name was certainly Richard, and who he encouraged to wear skin-tight green briefs in public.
Speaking of Robin, it seems unlikely that when the same problem arose (heh), Dick Grayson would approach cold, analytical Bruce Wayne. He, too, likely would seek out Alfred, although the conversation was probably much more energetic.
“Holy hardness, Alfred!” he might exclaim. “My Robin tights are tighter than ever!”
“I can see that, Master Dick.”
“Holy sarcasm, is that a joke?”
A slight tremor, the very faintest of smiles, might be visible. “No, Master Dick, I assure you.”
“Then stop calling me that! And tell me what to do about this! I can’t go into Gotham City and fight villains looking like a sundial!”
“It is perfectly normal, Master Richard. All young men experience this.”
“Even Bruce?”
“Indeed.”
Robin’s eyes might open wide. “Holy beefeater, Alfred, even you?”
“Well, I…ahem…it has been a very long time. My memory is a bit indistinct.”
“My memory is as sharp as my tights! What do I do?”
“I believe, Master Richard, that short of self-control, there remains only one option. Thankfully, we are not Catholic, although it is a temporary solution at best.”
His eyes might open ever wider. “Holy hand over fist! Is that the only cure?”
“Not so much a “cure” as a “treatment”, Master Richard. And for a young man of your tender age, most assuredly.”
And so Robin, like Batman, would cultivate a fondness for satin and add his own quirks: disturbingly odd Peter Pan footwear and a tendency to smack his right fist into his left palm. Conventional wisdom assumes this was because he was spoiling for a fight with the bad guys, but perhaps it was really a way of strengthening his grip for something else entirely. And it does explain why two men whose lives often depended on their ability to hold tightly on to ropes and weapons might insist on those smooth silky gloves… “
Before the 1960’s, sexual activity and thoughts were considered, “uncouth” and “taboo”. Such things of the nature were swept under the rug never to talk about in public but only hushed and whispered among adults in the confines of their bedrooms. In 1940 serials it is Bruce Wayne, the PLAYBOY, who is a so sniveling and unreliable that he becomes little more than a disguise that Batman adopts. It is Batman, not Bruce Wayne, who stands for the values of the 1940s while male prerogatives, and this becomes clearer in the 1949 film. In the first serial he protected us from the Yellow Peril. Now, besides fighting bad guys, he also makes sure that uppity woman get put in their place. When photographer Vicki Vale grows suspicious of Bruce, even noting that Batman seems to get around in Bruce’s car, Batman takes Vicki’s own car keys to try and prevent her from following him. There’s no romance here; Batman is what later generations would call a male chauvinist. In one scene her airily dismisses her, saying, “Don’t worry about her. She’s always taking pictures no one ever sees.” It’s Batman we’re cheering, and he lets us know that women need to be disciplined and offers a much more authentic view of contemporary attitudes.
In the 1960s, as we know, this show came out late in the 60s, and as we also know, this was meant as a mockery for our Dark Knight. But why was it such a big hit amongst watchers? For the laughs? Or perhaps it goes much deeper into the mores of 60s society.
In the 60s, things were changing, from the strict ways of the 50s to the peace, love and sex scene of the counter culture of the 60s. Political activism was stemming from everywhere, where Women’s Lib and anti war and anti authority feelings began to brood. Batman and his ward were representations of an old culture that people didn’t want anymore. Here, Batman has been deputized by the police and thus operates under cover within the law. For those labeled part of the counter cutlture, it indicated that our heroes had sold out and were simply posturing fools in costumes. Indeed, for those starting to grow cynical of a government that had gotten us into a war in Southeast Asia, it made perfect sense that this heroic buffoon was now firmly tied to the Establishment. So Bledsoe’s satire on the 60s Bruce and Alfred’s talk, it was meant to take a serious look at how the 60s counter culture viewed the 50s conservative and closeted look at sexuality. Here Bruce represents the epitome of a good child discussing sex in educated terms and never pestering for more details or asking about women and the incident is swept under the rug never to be talked about ever again. The foolishness of such a conversation was one way on how the conservative views of the 50s were looked upon and in Robin’s case, who took the liberty to ask questions and wants to openly discuss sexual endeavors, which is natural for growing young adults, it is viewed as idiotic – in the 50s, wanting to openly discuss the topic of sex was viewed as strange and just unapproachable. Again, the satire is seen with making a mockery out of Robin for simply doing the human thing to do, ask questions and Alfred gives him vague and simple answers and again this incident is swept under the rug. Batman of the 60s was to suggest the Establishment values had all the depth of a comic book panel.
Things remained as such till the 80s and onwards where virtually everything was concerning itself with sex, drugs and murder. As a common idiom goes: “Sex sells.” And thus talking about it and presenting it was not an issue any longer. Batman is outside the loop of lawful duty but still goes by his own justice and truth in which readers are relating to more then his previous “under cover” bit. In Frank Miller’s, The Dark Knight Returns, primed for a Batman who felt real human emotions. No longer a clown or a character simply to thrill children, this Batman was a pained guardian, driven to fight crime. This was a far much more grown up Batman then in pervious incarnations, who mirrored our own disillusioned audience. In the years after Watergate and Vietnam and, for that matter, the Iran hostage crisis, we no longer expected our leaders or our heroes to be perfect. In 1989’s Batman movie, Keaton is a conflicted hero, whom he also gets to take to bed Vicki Vale, proving him a grown-up Batman indeed. Earlier Batmans were so tightly controlled they didn’t even get to go to the bathroom; this one gets laid. By 1992, woman had come a long way. Where Vicki Vale had to put up with Batman’s putdowns in the 1949 Batman and Robin, Batman Returns is clearly a different beast. Rescuing woman being menaced by an assailant, Catwoman taunts the would-be rapist, “Be gentle. It’s my first time.” Later, battling Batman, she momentarily upsets him – and gains the upper hand – by playing to old stereotypes, “How could you? I’m a woman.” She then uses Batman’s courtliness against him, telling him, “Life’s a bitch. And now so am I.” Whther she’s licking herself because she “feels dirty” or assuring Bruce that normal guys have let her down – and then pouncing on him for a steamy kiss – she’s a woman who will no longer allow herself to be victimized. That Batman accepts this says much about how times have changed. A strong, fiercely independent woman is not a challenge to his masculinity, even if she’s on the kinky side.
And now in 2008, with the release of The Dark Knight, more sexual taboos have become more widely accepted, and are coming out to the light. Joker’s little “you complete me” really set the crowd on fire. Though of course this was not really meant to ignite any masochist feelings within the Batman, but the mere fact that his rival enemy says he “loves” him and is distracting him from the real cause of the situation (Dent and his girlfriend are missing) is what gets Batman’s goat. Note the fact, that the Bat-mythos and the audience are evolved sexually enough to accept and even allow the play for some homosexual innuendo.
As you can see, even though Batman’s sexual orientation hasn’t necessarily changed, he’s still as straight as an arrow, his sexual understanding and sexual awareness has begun to broaden along with the readers and viewers opening minds.
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Joker and Sex...
To be extremely up front about it.
He just kind of “goes with the flow” from what DC allows me to see.
I mean, Joker’s sexual orientation is a bit obscure, for one thing, he’s got a gorgeous little piece of eye candy dangling on his arm and we know they must be doing SOMETHING behind closed doors (Mad Love, and the Animated Movie with Batman and Superman). But on the other hand, in the recent Cacophony and Arkham Asylum: Serious House on Serious Earth, we can see something of a more…flamboyant clown.
And from one Batman fanatic to another, I’m just going to tell you some of my ideas this whole business. And hopefully I will gather some very interesting insights on your ideas on this subject as well.
In many cases people have often resorted to place him in one of the top three categories of sexual orientations:
Heterosexual, for the fact that he is (or was – but, whatever Morrison) going out with Harley Quinn and was once associated with a couple of other women who have come and gone with the Joker.
Homosexual, he is a pretty eccentric character, with a sort of touch of the effeminate and fey. His obsession with Batman and his pet names such as “darling”, “sweetheart”, “honey”, and so on also lend weight to this idea.
Bisexual, pretty much for the stated reasons above, why choose one when in this day and age so many of us are turning to “double dipping”?
And though I feel bisexuality is probably the closest to understanding the Joker’s sexuality out of the three – there is still so much more to be said other than that he prefers to go “both ways”. Really it all comes down to the fact of his ego and how he views himself amongst people. Labels such as “heterosexual”, “homosexual” and “bisexual” are very pedestrian things. Defining our sexuality is a human “need” – as if stating such a thing would be defining who we are. This is not the case with the Joker. He sees himself as above human necessities (even though he is human) and doesn’t define himself with labels and sexual orientation.
In fact, I feel it limiting to actually have to place my finger on where he stands in this hogwash of sexual expression. Probably it would be more true to say that all of it would apply to him, though, I would say, predominantly asexual, pansexual and auto sexual.
Joker is a law unto himself, as so many of us already know by now, and it is probably even easier to say that the Joker would do whatever he wanted and to whom he wanted. But I’m just striving to reach some platform for all to understand what I see Joker as being. Something a little more tangible.
Asexual - Asexuality is a sexual orientation that describes individuals who do not experience sexual attraction.
Asexuality is not so much the avoidance of things having to do with sex, but simply not being very interested IN sexual activities. Sex is not a primary importance to them, as it is with most of society, and if involved in sexual activity – are either doing it to serve some sort of purpose or for some need. I think the Joker would fit very well into such a category, as stated before, sex is a very HUMAN thing to do, and he would not do it so much for pleasure but for business. Something he’d HAVE to do as so he can move on with the day or his plan or whatever it may be.
And though once again, it seems like it might be simple to point to the fact that perhaps he is asexual and that is the end of that business. But – what evidence points out that he actually doesn’t ENJOY sexual endeavors? Of course, it’s not his primary concern and maybe not even his secondary or tertiary, and he wouldn’t mind to go the distance if he was going to get something out of it. But there are some instances I believe where he does have a sort of libido that doesn’t involve having to do strictly with business.
Evidence of this can really be found in Mad Love. Where Harley parades around the room with her nightgown and pulls out a whoopee cushion and seductively calls out to the Joker with “Oh sweetie, I got the whoopee cushion!” Now here, we aren’t flat out hit over the head with “LET’S DO IT AGAIN!” it’s more subtle but it leads us readers to believe that – this has happened once before. How else would Harley know that his fetish lies with whoopee cushions unless an incident with a whoopee cushion had occurred once before? And what purpose does it serve him to have sex with her? She is already head over heels in love with him, and isn’t her begging him for it kind of “funny” to him? And if he did do it to stop the begging – it hasn’t worked out and yet – they still manage to do the deed every now and again. (The World’s Finest – Batman and Superman – where Mercy says to Luthor about them making Ha-Ha – oh priceless…).
And on the subject of whoopee cushions. Chica Chica Wha??! Obviously, this is the Joker we’re talking about, if he is going to do some pedestrian than he is going to do it with his own style. It isn’t going to be “normal”.
In most cases, and because his character is a very integral part of this, he is a very sensual and charismatic guy. Because he is after all HUMAN, he understands full well the human needs and wants and is clearly very good at reading others like books. For this I feel he can charm pretty much anyone with a few choice words and couple of pity cards. I mean, if you’re talking to him via phone call or something. I mean once ya see him you’re probably going to start running the other way no matter how many pretty words he’s going to say. Though, if you do plan to stick around – I’m sure you might be seduced by his charm and wit. It is with this type of work that he does, that you can see his sensual being, because he has virtually nothing to lose he can interact with life and such without restraint.
Pansexual - means not limited or inhibited in sexual choice by gender or activity; a sexuality that has many different forms, objects, and outlets.
Gender and sex to a pansexual is irrelevant. This is probably most often confused with bisexuality, because it does involve the male and female populous but – bisexuality excludes some of the less known types of gender and sex match ups. For example, the transsexuals whose place does not necessarily fit within the mold of bisexuality but does with pansexuality. In sum, pansexuality is the step above bisexuality in virtually they could care less what you are. In fact, pansexuality in its purest form is that virtually anything can be sexually arousing. In those instances where he does decide to splurge or make business, I don’t think he’d have any problem going at it with a tree as long as it satisfies his needs at the moment or later on in the future.
But, if the Joker is going to do the nasty, without having any really specific motive behind it, like cash or something (lol! Guess that would technically make him a high class hooker – Cacophony) then what else could he possibly do it for?
Fun and Amusement.
Plainly put. His whole life is centered on himself, he is an egotistical bastard. And most importantly it revolves around him, having fun and screwing with people and to amuse himself with his own sick and disoriented views of the life and love and everything under the sun. But I’m not talking about fun and amusement like – regular – fun and amusement. I mean, he doesn’t get off with hot chicks (Harley) or hot guys (Pretty much all the heroes in DCU) or even plants or aliens (Poison Ivy/Jon). There is something else he’s after, something that involves more the mental rather than the physical.
I mean we can go around and around with this business of him being completely straight with the fact he shows up in places with hot women (Gotham Underground #5) and makes some pretty nasty comments around superhero/villain females. Or we can say he’s completely gay for the fact that he got some serious homoerotism going for Batman. But I don’t think his motion back and forth between the two constitutes any real sexual element. He does this for the “gasp-factor”. He wants to see his intended victims get a rise out of his comments and sexual innuendo. As long as he can draw attention to himself, he is consuming energy. What I mean by this is that as long as attention is directed AT him, he is sucking that energy in. Because, in a way, Batman, Harley, the rogues gallery, and Gotham City's attention gives him all the power he needs. Turn that attention away from him, and he is powerless.
Joker likes to play mind games with people, especially with Batman. And this deep fixation and love and arousal stems from these games. The sexual stimulus comes from THE GAMES – the fact that it is only Batman who can play his game, only Batman who can catch and only Batman who possibly be on the same playing field as him – it’s like “they were made for each other”. He is IN LOVE with the fact that he can have a companion like him, he has the HOTS for the idea not the man per say. And really now, what is Batman ultimately but an idea? Plus all the sexual jokes with Batman, really, would you like your most hated rival making snide homosexual remarks? Obviously not, so you tell them to shut up (which Batman does) or beat the crap of them (which Batman does). No that I’m saying Batman is a big masochistic club, just because someone is calling him gay doesn’t mean he hates gay people or anything of the sort, it’s just the fact that it’s THE JOKER that’s doing it that really grinds his gears.
I mean, the Joker is really just, in love with his job. He loves what he does (Salvation Run). And he loves Batman – in that weird Joker way of his, probably infatuated with him, and he loves Harley (and whoa did I open a whole can of worms there or wwhhaatt??!). But again in that oh so Joker way of his!
Auto Sexual – sexual tendencies towards one’s self
Right off the bat (lol – ya I said it, BAT) we can see why this one would relate to him, a narcissist like him couldn’t get away without THIS ONEE!
I mean, all in all, it’s always about him. Why does he love Batman? Because Batman is able to play on HIS level. Why does he “love” Harley? Because she makes him feel special in all the right place (get your mind out of the gutters!). With Harley and Batman he is able to bask in his own brilliance and his own personal understanding that life in meaningless and all that jazz. It is with his own genius that he is able to bring about all the things that make him SMILE and make living more enjoyable FOR HIM.
In the BTAS series, Harley and Ivy, his egotistical nature can bluntly be pointed out. Starting from the scream in his hideout when finding out about Harley and Ivy’s team up – he is obviously not pleased with the fact that Harley made a new friend; who is distracting her from being in the hideout with HIM to glorify HIM and get HIM DRESSED. xD. To the part where Harley calls and as she’s speaking with him over the phone he picks up a mirror and blows a kiss at his reflection. And even more so in Salvation Run, he cares more about HIS OWN amusement, he kills one of the most brilliant people on their god forsaken planet and tries to disrupt Luthor’s plan to get them back to earth. He pretty much jeopardizes everyone’s chance to go home (including himself) for the sake of creating a little chaos to entertain HIMSELF.
I mean, his behavior does change like the wind and he wears each like a suit. So perhaps one day he can be as gay and be all about man sex and then the next he can be hitting on an inanimate object. Really, if he’s going to have a sexual orientation, I prefer it to be multiple choice.
(*queue little cymbals that signify joke* Tee Hee - oh poor clichéd me lmaao!)
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Harley Quinn and Sex…
Again, it would be so much easier to pin point her sexuality down to – she’s bi. But again this is definitely NOT the case. She’s needy and has some difficulty with being – well – alone. This is most emphasized in Harley Quinn’s own series where she goes to hell and her punishment is to be trapped in a dark corridor – all by herself – for the rest of eternity.
Though I would like to say her sexuality is just a bit easier to decipher than it is her boyfriend. Basically, she’s a Joker-sexual with bisexualism thrown into the mix.
In Harley’s universe, anything the Joker virtually does is sensual and a complete turn on. The way she swoons over his brilliant plans to blow up Gotham City (Harlequinade) and pretty much flutters whenever he does anything – whether it be a positive thing or negative that he’s doing at the moment. I consider it an absolute certainty sex between them happens, possibly with more regularity as the years go by (Harley is persistent, after all, and a quick learner). Not that it happens in any normal way or even in ways that are always safe for Harley, and she is probably the initiator most of the time, then subjected to being passive and submissive. However, sexualized play doesn’t necessarily mean penis-in-vagina per say with these two. There is some what of a more – subtle playfulness between the two. There is the pleasure Harley clearly gets as a 'performer' for Joker and the delight Joker takes in making her run in circles for him. Just because there might not be a great deal of traditional sex does not mean sexual pleasure is not taken in other ways.
Joker, as a narcissistic egomaniac with a naturally forceful and dominating personality, would find his needs met in Harley's adoration and devotion. His sadistic streak can be gratified with her and he can enjoy the power he wields over her in her inability to ever truly give him up.
Harley, meanwhile, can gratify her need to adore and nurture someone who loves the attention (most of the time). She can also satisfy her lust for thrill seeking with a man who has no limits and will continue to push hers. Her masochism can be indulged with his violence.
And though Harley and Joker’s sexual relationship goes far beyond that of anything realistically healthy it is something they BOTH consent to and are getting some sort of pleasure out of. However, Harley’s pleasure seeking doesn’t stop there!
Harley and Ivy were first paired together in the Batman: Animated Series episode Harley and Ivy. At first the duo were simply meant for some cheap laughs and gags but when aired it felt the brunt force of immediate fandom and the friendship hasn’t ended since then. Ivy, sultry, seductive and self-assured, Harley, perky, cute, and insecure somewhat balance each other out with their different personalities. It is a strange villainess match up that is seldom or perhaps not even heard of in any villain scene. Villains tend to be somewhat of a lonely bunch whom are to proud and too egotistical to have any real friends (though I think Batman villains are exempt from this – on some level they all care for each other, I mean it’s a very base and a very thin and flaky sort of friendship but they stick to their kin and what not, and not to mention that sort of “mi casa nostra es su casa nostra” attitude within gang members plays a role in this). But somehow there seems to be so much more between the two. Unfortunately DCU doesn’t seem to really tap to much on this potential but plenty of DCAU comics have.
What I think makes this relationship possible is the fact that Ivy somewhat mirrors Harley and Joker’s own relationship. Ivy is the dominant figure between the two and Harley is once again the submissive follower. On a different note, Ivy can also be seen as somewhat of a big sister towards Harley, he often gets fed up with Harley’s lack of motivation and respect for her plants and in turn disregards her hyenas and complains about her obsession with the Joker. She wants her to ultimately dump the clown because of the apparent abuse between the two and Ivy simply cannot stand the fact that someone would let someone hurt them because of “love” or the ties that bind them (hence she hates Humans because they make life so complicated – and you know – plants). Ivy does care for Harley but she has no problem ditching her either. She prefers to confines of solitude with her plants rather than the hustle and bustle of human life. It’s a strange oddity that a strong and solitary woman like herself would be caught with someone like Harley Quinn who hates to be alone and I think latches on to Ivy for the purpose of not being alone while the Joker is away. And although Harley does care for Ivy as well, her first and primary allegiance is always with the Joker.
Not to mention, just because there is two girls in this relationship does not necessarily bar it from any abuse. Ivy is still psychotic and demands people listen to her and follow her (I guess that’s good for Ivy then because Harley has a flaky personality who has a very dependent and submissive nature. She seems to be very happy to let others 'take over' for her and be in control. Also in many cases and Ivy is verbally and physically abusive to Harley. Ivy frequently losing her temper with Harley, dismissing her as a screw-up, saying she's stupid, shouting at her for incompetence, abandoning her or blaming her when things go wrong, ignoring her when distracted by other things, outright hurting her feelings in a very deliberate way and taking advantage of her when it suits her... and sometimes getting physical too. Though to a lesser extent than the Joker.
Of course in the comic book world, no one ever likes to reveal anyone’s sex secret. Except Batwoman and Renee, I guess you can say they’re exempt from this rule, or you can say they aren’t really MAIN characters and Harley and Ivy are considering they are part of the rogue’s gallery. However, I think as analytical readers we can assume that there is something going on between those red and green sheets of theirs and what they do at girl slumber parties. Especially with Timm giving us some pretty risqué drawings of the two in playfully suggestive positions.
I mean in Holiday Knights – the animated cartoon – they share the same bed, and in Batgirl #1 Harley nad Batgirl share some hilarious dialogue on what’s going on twixt Harley and Ivy’s bed sheets and Batgirl’s and Supergirl’s capes. I mean, I have no idea how more out right you can get with information such as this?
I do believe that there might be a glimmer of romantic feelings though I do feel it to be more of a animalistic and power exchange from what they do sexually together. Harley, doesn’t like to be lonely and Joker, from what we’ve seen on countless occasions, doesn’t like to give in very easily to her advances. And we all know how Harley is needy and always wants and wants, so what better way to get that then to go to a friend who is willing to satisfy her no questions asked. I mean, Ivy is the embodiment of beauty and lust. Ivy’s need to control and posses even through means of sexual encounters really comes down to seducing Harley for the purpose of controlling her completely.
Though all in all we know this to be, of little work, for one thing the pheromones don’t work on Harley because Ivy gave her that antidote, and for another thing, Harley is obsessed with the Joker. I guess, in some sort of way they do, at the time being, satisfy their needs at the moment – though it is only temporary satisfaction.
Mostly their relationship is grounded on friendship and the sex really is just something of an added bonus. I don’t mind the shipping, it is part of canon and what not, though everyone must realize that this relationship just won’t last, Harley loves Joker, and Ivy loves plants.
Naughty Bruce Timm Pic 1:
www.comicartcommunity.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=24053&sessionid=d71624be3cee27c42eecb5300b8396d5Naughty Bruce Timm Pic 2:
img209.imageshack.us/img209/5953/cluelessharleygw6.jpg**********
Two –Face and Sex…
It would be assumed that he would be BISEXUAL – considering the fact that he is TWO-FACE and does have an awful fetish for things concerning themselves with the number two. Though if that were really the case, wouldn’t Harvey also be a cross dresser or even a transvestite? What people need to see is that, even though he is somewhat crazy about the duality of life’s little intricacies it’s mostly due to remind the BOTH of them of the duality between their own personalities, and as far as I’m concerned the only thing they seem to do share is the fact that their both attracted to women.
Besides wouldn’t be just a little too OBVIOUS if he ended up being a bisexual? I mean, I know that’s his gimmick and everything, but, I think that’s pushing it. I mean I also know it’s a bit obvious that the hero of the Bat-mythos is heterosexual and male – but that’s DIFFERENT.
In any case, how exactly can I be absolutely SURE that Two-Face is a heterosexual? Well, pre-scaring, Harvey Dent was married to a beautiful women whom he loved dearly by the name of Gilda Dent. After the scaring, with the creation of Two-Face, his masochist ways were exemplified. Two-Face is probably the closest thing in the Rogue’s gallery to a mobster (along with Pengers of course). And mobsters tend to pride themselves with their manliness – leaving any form of homosexuality out of the question. But for more solidified proof, in Dark Victory he sleeps with the new FEMALE DA Porter.
However, he does seem to have a very asexual tendency to him. He isn’t really interested in sexual escapades and we rarely see him hounding for a piece of eye candy. He’s incredibly strict in his actions and often has both eyes looking towards his goal. In many ways, Two-Face still retains some of Harvey Dent’s personality traits, but just skewed into a darker, brutal and more deadly view point. Harvey Dent was a very goal oriented man, when he wanted to put Marone family away; he stopped at nothing, even after the explosion of his own home to put the thugs away for good. It seems this has also transferred into Two-Face’s attitude but towards robbing banks and seeking revenge over those who wronged him. Again another reappearance of Harvey Dent seeking out justice, though in Two-Face’s extent he is judge and jury and executioner and he always punishes those to the highest extent.
With all of these things on his mind it’s hard to imagine him being anything but asexual with heterosexual leeway. Pretty much the only reason he even had sexual relations to the new DA in Dark Victory was to get what he wanted. And as soon as she became a liability he had no problem blowing her away.
But what keeps him from venturing off with women? If we’re still keeping in tune with the gangster bit, then wouldn’t he have dames hanging off his arms to prove he’s “the big guy”? Perhaps it’s because he knows what he looks like that he doesn’t venture to do it, or he doesn’t feel the need to prove his power, or he has too many things on his mind to be thinking dirty thoughts. I feel these could all be good excuses but I don’t think that would constitute very solid reasons as to why he wouldn’t. The Joker knows what he looks like and flaunts the fact that women are STILL after him, and the fact that Two-Face was able to get the DA into bed with him must say that outside of the fact that half his fact is disfigured it actually quite a charmer. And it’s in Two-Faces nature to prove himself the bigger man, he pretty much sharing the body with another person altogether and often states that he is the dominant personality of the two and thus takes more control. In the RIP Nightwing stories, where Harvey tries to save a women but ends up killing her because Two-Face took over and put a bullet through her head. Two-Face is the dominant figure here and he likes exerting his power, he wants power for the sole purpose of exerting it. And the fact he has “too much on his mind” – he is after all sharing two minds in one head, is preposterous. I’m pretty sure all other rogue members suffer from an abundance of noises in their heads and this does not impair them in their sexual activities. Penguin is a owner of a very popular lounge, and he has to keep face up well enough to look like a legit business man while also dealing with things under the table without getting Batman suspicious. That’s A LOT of head work to think about. And let’s not forget about the Joker, I don’t think he ever gets a moments rest of the things that coil around in his head.
So in sum, why doesn’t Two-Face ever want to do anything?
Because of Gilda.
Harvey has never forgotten nor will ever get over Gilda. Any other woman he has been with has either been before Gilda or is just there to be used and thrown away. Gilda Dent is Harvey’s one and only number one.
Two-Face is the example of everything nasty and disgusting the best of him made into the worse aspects. The only thing that could never be tainted and distorted was Harvey’s love for his wife. In Dark Victory, he mentions to DA Porter that she reminds him of Gilda. Maybe he was saying that to tease and taunt her? Or maybe he genuinely meant it, and if that’s the case he still loves and misses her. Then why no remorse when he shot her? Because it’s Two-Face, first of all, HE’S TWO-FACED, second of all, he’s a killer, and lastly, she WASN’T Gilda Dent.
Gilda is probably the only one who could tame the beast tormented Harvey. Grace, the BTAS version of Gilda, clearly portrayed this strong affection when she decides to meet with him, and he takes the liberty to shield the half of his face he deems unsuitable for his wife to see. However, she brings him out into the light and tells him that he needs not be afraid of her to look at him because she will always love him. And though it seems that for a moment everything will be happy again, it is ruined through circumstances and the life of crime he let his Two-Face half bring on him.
In away, Two-Face kind of a has a Mr. Freeze complex as well, he is angry at the world because, even though he had CHOSEN to do good even though life had been so cruel to him (his abusive father) it was by CHANCE that had scarred his face – dubbed to be incredibly handsome and turned him into a monster. He served out justice through CHANCE the same way he had lived his life, it was CHANCE that had made him and it was CHANCE that was going to dictate who he was and what he would do to others from now on. The divine dichotomy.
And it is because Harvey still holds reign over the heart, and Two-Face possesses no genuine human emotion but embodies mercilessness and destruction they can not have any genuine sexual relations. Two-Face wouldn’t mind pitching up the tent but if it meant he’d get something out of it, to simply perform acts of sexual gratification just isn’t his style, it serves him no purpose, and as a character that’s all about completing a purpose (he is obsessive with that stuff, the twos and such) why would he frivolously go around having sexual encounters for no reason?
And as stated before Harvey is still caught up with Gilda – or at least the idea of Gilda. If he ever did get the time share over the body he wouldn’t go seeking out a female to please him either. Harvey wants something meaningful, and though he knows that Gilda is out of his life, permanently, Harvey is a romantic guy, he wants a relationship and not just gratification.
In a case where he comes close to getting into a relationship – is with Renee Montoya, whom he states he likes – a lot – and kidnaps her due to unrequited love and the fact that she’s terrified of him because he is a criminal. I think he genuinely liked her, Harvey, and Two-Face might’ve seen her as an incredibly resource at the time of NML. However, Montoya put them down by stating she was a lesbian – a secret she had kept hidden from her police colleagues for some time. Ultimately, this crushed Harvey, who retreated back into himself. He had found someone who he believed was going to be the one and whom Two-Face had even agreed to like, and in the end it had all ended – it was by CHANCE that she had ended up being a lesbian and he had picked her to project her as his new love interest. Broken again, Harvey let’s two-Face take the reigns and he does graciously by spewing her good name into the ground by telling all of her police peers that she is a lesbian, a secret she was planning on keeping with her to the grave.
Perhaps it will be a long while till Harvey/Two-Face will ever settle down. Chance so far has been giving them nothing but scars.
